Nick Mamatas ([info]nihilistic_kid) wrote,
@ 2005-06-07 10:45:00
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Panel moderation
John Scalzi suggests a firm hand in moderating panels after experiencing WisCon and [info]wild_irises likes her communitarian way ...and both really miss the mark.


I moderated a panel as Wiscon a couple of years ago, and made a point of not showing up at the Green Room first to "plan" the panel ("Writing Down the War"), and made a special effort to include audience members' commentary. After all, this was 2003 and WisCon is the home of anti-war leftists (albeit ones who undoubtedly universally marched into the voting both and pulled levers for fanged, drooling Arab-killers Dean and Kerry later on) so there were many social anxieties to be expressed. The largest anti-war movement the world had ever seen had not stopped the war, and the classic left mentality of representing "the people" regardless of the minority current the left represents was actually and temporarily inverted -- millions of people had taken to the street, but "business as usual" politics ended up winning the day. (Yes, this is linked to the idea of voting for the Democratic Party.)

So, in such a social environment, people were going to talk, were going to flip out about neocons or the Religious Right or people who "don't think" "("Think!" was literally a slogan on placards at some anti-war demos) and it hardly made any sense for them to be stifled, since they simply wouldn't be anyway. And of course, we had to talk about writing too. Neither "hot leather" nor "helping the helper" were going to work.

All in all, I did fairly well. I know because a dozen people, both panelists and audience members, came up to me afterwards and thanked me for the marvelous job I did moderating the panel.

Luckily, I learned my panel moderation skills from the ISO. While the group has a somewhat-deserved reputation for "taking over" movements, especially on campuses, the real issue is simply one of organizational responsibility -- in these days of hyperindividualism as a political pose, few people are really interested in taking organizational responsibility within a movement. Organizational authority, yes but scut work? Nuh-uh. Activism is a middle-class milieu, after all. Why would people perform those duties within a movement that they hire Latin women or college interns to do at home or in the office? No reason at all, so the far left groupings often end up taking organizational responsibility, though they often do so very cynically.

From my years of handling discussions within coalitions, particularly coalitions comprised of several opposing political currents, I learned an important lesson about moderation. Moderators must cultivate a sense of disinterest from the proceedings. (Yes, the ISO considered this blasphemous too, but it works.) The problem in SF conventions is that moderators are often heavily-entrenched in the proceedings of the panel, and may have even conceived of the idea for that panel in the first place. Like that obscure college course that actually represents the professor's old dissertation work, an hour in the same room with such a person will be No Fun For Anyone. One of the other Wiscon panels I was on that year featured a moderator who handed out copies of her own (horrible) short story about "The Goddess of Free Expression" and who started literally shouting me down when I suggested that textual pornography need not hold to strict standards of either literary realism or to her little mantra of "safe, sane, consensual." My point? They're stories. Hers? THAT'S EVIL AND WRONG AND ENCOURAGES RAPE AND AT LEAST A LACK OF MECHANICAL SAFETY WHEN IT COMES TO TYING BUNGEE CORDS TO ONE'S GENITALS AND I'VE SEEN TOO MANY TORN LABIA AND HOPELESSLY DISTENDED FORESKINS AT ALL MY NERDO PLAY PARTIES FOR THAT TO STAND; PLUS IT'S ICKY! She was just too interested.

Disinterested doesn't mean uninterested, of course. It means that the success of a panel is measured only by what the panel as an entity (not just the panelists) want. Conversations can only be controlled through force, but they can be guided very well and easily through the art of the follow-up question and the interim conclusion. If someone on the panel says something very provocative, like "The West Wing represents the height of a liberal fantasy of benevolent imperialism" and half the chairs in the crowd start quaking, ask a follow-up that narrows the parameters of the comment, THEN take responses from the audience. If someone is rambling, and especially if they ever say "Well, I dunno", then help them out by saying "So what you/you all seem to be saying is [succinct conclusion]." Then you hand the thread to the panelist who has at that point said the LEAST and ask for their thoughts on another question. The trick is that everyone ends up thinking they've made their point, even when they don't have one.

A good moderator should be somewhat journalistic -- get "quotes" from people, and the job is to get compelling and interesting ones, not just the ones you agree with, but ones that "readers" (in this case, the panel-as-entity) will find interesting. If the subject speaking is too rambly to be quotable, you sum them up. If someone says something that could cause a derailment, you make eye contact with someone who is smirking but looks otherwise relaxed, and you call on them for a defusing comment. If a panelist, especially one of the many Kings of the Shitheap in the genre, gets off on one of his pet shibboleths, you undermine the way Edwin Newman used to -- interrupt briefly with a silly question about nothing. For example:

Panelist (going on for several minutes): "....and in the middle ages, WHEAT and WOMEN were the only motors of social power!"

Mod: "Pardon me, what about eggs? Did they have eggs?"

P: "EGGS! Well, the social FRAMEWORK meant that EGGS--"

ModL "Do you like eggs? i like eggs florentine."

P: "Uh...I guess I like eggs."

M: To audience: "I see a fellow egg-liker with her hand up. What do you like about them?" (points to the least aggreived looking person with hand up)


This is also useful when virtually everyone shares a major premise, like, as in the Writing on the War panel, that "Americans" are "brainwashed" and need to be "educated" to be against the war. This was interesting in that it suggested a rather profound if vulgar Idealist conception of society -- so I brought that up, again, as a question (statements reflect interest, not disinterest), and tossed the thread to a couple of materialists in the room. This was handy because it put an end to simple amplifying concepts, a la "I agree with the last speaker; my uncle is also brainwashed and needs to be educated!" "So does my sister!" "And my boss!"

The final issue of moderation involves audience members who get upset when audience members, either as a whole or singly, take up "too much time." Yes, even the Kings of the Shitheap have their willing peasant followers, and they are at the panel to hear Their Lord speak. They don't want to know from any other noodge in the audience. However, everyone is the king and queen of their own minds -- to make these people happy, just call on them once, so that they can ask their hero some asslick of a question, and be done with it. Then follow-up with a real question.


Moderation is a series of cheap tricks that evolve into a high art; but it only works on the basis of not having a personal stake in the discussion.


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[info]wild_irises
2005-06-07 05:50 pm UTC (link)
Mmmmm, excellent!

I generally don't moderate if I have hugely strong feelings on the topic.

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[info]pantryslut
2005-06-07 06:03 pm UTC (link)
I try to make it a point not to moderate if I wrote the panel description.

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[info]wild_irises
2005-06-07 09:13 pm UTC (link)
However, who are you calling a communitarian? Them's fightin' words ...

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ISO
[info]keith418
2005-06-07 05:57 pm UTC (link)
Are you still in the ISO? Did you leave?

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Re: ISO
[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-07 06:03 pm UTC (link)
I left many years ago. After their opportunistic right-wing turn toward supporting Nader for presidency, I wouldn't rejoin on a dare either.

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So...
[info]keith418
2005-06-07 06:21 pm UTC (link)
Is there any Trotsky group you approve of and support?

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Re: So... - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-07 06:23 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]coridan
2005-06-07 06:11 pm UTC (link)
Some great notes for moderating corporate meetings and panels as well. Thanks, Nick!

CB

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[info]charliegrrrl
2005-06-07 06:24 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm... interesting. So you're saying you're in *favor* of unsafe genital bungee cord attachment in fiction?

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[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-07 06:28 pm UTC (link)
Yes, in fact I'm seeking angel investors for my www.ruinousgenitalbungeepics.com website.

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[info]douglain
2005-06-07 09:43 pm UTC (link)
Your approach sounds good to me.

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[info]scalzi
2005-06-07 11:36 pm UTC (link)
"...and both really miss the mark."

Eh. Dunno about that.

I've never moderated a panel that I've shepherded through a convention process, or otherwise had anything to do with prior to showing up, so the issue of emotional investment in the panel is not a huge one for me. I have moderated panels the topics of which I have strong opinions, but in my opinion a good moderator understands that his or her job is to make sure everyone on the panel gets heard; using a panel just to push one's own agenda seems like a fine waste of a panel.

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[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-07 11:46 pm UTC (link)
good moderator understands that his or her job is to make sure everyone on the panel gets heard

Why? What makes the panelists so special? Don't say "their expertise" as anyone who has ever been to a con knows how ridiculous that is.

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[info]scalzi
2005-06-08 01:01 am UTC (link)
"What makes the panelists so special? Don't say 'their expertise' as anyone who has ever been to a con knows how ridiculous that is."

Oh, yes, Nick. All cons are run by morons who pick their panelists out of a lotto hopper.

As most of the panels I've been on have had people on them whose selection seemed more rational than mere random selection, your admonition *not* to appeal to expertise is fairly ignorable. Expertise (or at least appropriateness) *is* in fact a criteria. Certainly on one of the most recent panels I moderated, "What First-Time Authors Know That You Need to Know About," all the people on the panel were on their first books in the genre. Thereby, they were in a privledged position regarding the topic, and that made them special. QED.

I would agree that clueless people are frequently on panels for no good reason; would that they had the presence of mind to recuse themselves in those cases (I withdrew from a panel I was placed on at Interaction because it was a topic I knew nothing about and had even less interest in -- *I* wouldn't want to see me on the panel, so I didn't see the point in subjecting anyone else to me in that context). But I submit that the clueless panelist is not the norm, at least at a reasonably well-run con.

If you don't want to buy into the proposition that panelists are "special" in regard to the panel topic, the solution is simple: Don't have the discussion be a panel discussion. Put if you *are* going to have a panel discussion, work on the assumption that people are on the panel for a reason until clearly proven otherwise. Then as moderator, work accordingly to make the panel worthwhile to everyone.


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(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 01:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]gadarene, 2005-06-08 02:49 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 03:25 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 03:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 04:40 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 04:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 12:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 05:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 07:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 08:03 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 08:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 09:21 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 10:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 11:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 11:36 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 12:35 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-09 12:57 am UTC (Expand)
See, some questions don't inspire additional conversation... - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 12:59 am UTC (Expand)
Re: See, some questions don't inspire additional conversation... - [info]st_rev, 2005-06-09 02:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 08:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 09:23 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]daveamongus, 2005-06-08 10:09 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 10:29 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]daveamongus, 2005-06-08 10:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 10:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]daveamongus, 2005-06-09 01:10 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 01:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 11:02 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 11:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 11:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 12:38 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-08 08:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 08:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]zhaneel69, 2005-06-08 08:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-08 09:26 pm UTC (Expand)
Just passing through - [info]kadath, 2005-06-09 05:52 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Just passing through - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 05:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Just passing through - [info]kadath, 2005-06-09 06:01 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]gadarene
2005-06-08 04:07 am UTC (link)
"anyone who has ever been to a con"

Any person who's ever been to one con?

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The best part about reading this discussion... - (Anonymous), 2005-06-09 05:09 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: The best part about reading this discussion... - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 05:11 pm UTC (Expand)
The audience resents people who know what they're talking about? - (Anonymous), 2005-06-09 05:24 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 05:34 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: (sigh) - (Anonymous), 2005-06-09 06:27 pm UTC (Expand)
Jesus - [info]nihilistic_kid, 2005-06-09 06:33 pm UTC (Expand)
The best part about reading this discussion... - (Anonymous), 2005-06-09 05:13 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]gadarene
2005-06-08 03:23 am UTC (link)
At both Lunacon and Philcon in the same year, I was screamed at during two different panels, as a member of the audience, not by the panelists (some of whom had little demonstrable expertise, but were at least inoffensive) but in each case by CRAZY moderators. I stopped going to cons for years after, as that was my introduction, and as a scattershot sampling, it was indeed horrible and amateurish in all senses of the word:

Etymology: French, from Latin amator lover, from amare to love
1 : DEVOTEE, ADMIRER
2 : one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession
3 : one lacking in experience and competence in an art or science

But cons are by and large organized by volunteers and devotees, without which few (to no) conventions operate.
So what then is the difference between so-called pro cons and other ones. Is it just a made-up distinction or not?

By the way, "But sometimes there are good panels!" was how folks tried to reassure me after I got yelled down at those two cons in 1996.

(In one of them, the moderator seemed affronted by my open-ended question to the panelists in some programming about faith and gods in the future: "Many people seem to get more religious when facing mortality, or at the end of their lives, or often after having children and being reminded of the cycle of life and death. In science fiction or in our future, when perhaps life expectancy gets immeasurably long or immortality is a fact of the story, do you think there will be a need for God? Without the fear of meeting one's maker?"

Some people take me for Indian when they meet me. Easy enough, sure. The moderator did, too. He bellowed at me, prejudging, thinking perhaps I was posing snide and superior questions from the standpoint of another culture or religion, "Do you believe in God!? Do you! Do you believe in God!" and then escalated his demanding attack from there when I tried to say it was immaterial to the question I had posed to the panelists. All this without letting the panelists, who finally had to interrupt (and that after the person I was with was getting angry and rising in his seat and taking a step forward) the dementedly outraged moderator in order to give some interesting responses. This didn't stop the moderator from trying to reinsert himself in his pet topic once again.

What the encounter did do was squelch any enthusiasm I had for sf conventions until perhaps 1999 or on into the 2000s.

Don't even start me on how the vampire panel got mad at me.

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[info]scalzi
2005-06-08 03:32 am UTC (link)
Heh. Since I wrote the article in question, I've had a number of people write me e-mails relating nightmare moderator stories, to make the point that it's not just audience members who get out of hand. And naturally, I concede the point, since pointing out one particular behavior on the part of one group does not imply that other behaviors from other people are not also problems. Dickhead moderators, I have no doubt, can make a panel a hellish experience.

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[info]gadarene
2005-06-08 03:45 am UTC (link)
Does dickheadedness fall in line with being too in love with the topic being moderated? (Whatever "too interested" might be, I think I hit it right between the eyes.)

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(no subject) - [info]scalzi, 2005-06-08 04:18 am UTC (Expand)

[info]st_rev
2005-06-08 04:55 am UTC (link)
What are panels for, anyway? I have been congoing for twenty-five years and I still don't get the point.

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[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-08 04:57 am UTC (link)
Gives people something to do when the bar is full.

Also, given the panels I attended for neophyte writers, panels are used to dispense arcane wisdom like "Put your name on your manuscripts" and "Don't use WingDings as a font".

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(no subject) - [info]st_rev, 2005-06-08 06:10 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]farklebarkle, 2005-06-08 06:39 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]gadarene
2005-06-08 05:13 am UTC (link)
Wow, your congoing is old enough to rent a car now!

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(no subject) - [info]st_rev, 2005-06-08 06:09 am UTC (Expand)

[info]mehitobel
2005-06-08 05:36 am UTC (link)
... and then there are terrible panelists, like me. I walked into my first, freaked out, asked the mod beforehand if I could please just be marked as absent, and he said no. I stayed, and shouldn't have. I wasn't worth the audience's (or panel's) time or money AND it was hell for me.

Since then, I've been scheduled on a couple of panels despite asking not to be (I had paid con memberships, it wasn't like I was working off a freebie from the con by being on a panel) and told the organizers, many months ahead of the con, in person and in writing that I would not do them. Panel time comes, and lo, there's an empty chair with my name on a placard, and I'm a no-show diva. Hurray.

The three viewpoints presented here have been food for thought, but the comments in response to all three regarding audience expectations of panelists have been fascinating.

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[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-08 08:09 pm UTC (link)
But but...a con com CHOSE you! You must be an insightful, articulate genius of some sort!

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(no subject) - [info]mehitobel, 2005-06-08 08:50 pm UTC (Expand)
question not related to panels
[info]rosindust
2005-06-08 02:23 pm UTC (link)
How would I get my hands on several used copies of "Watership Down" for as little as possible, short of robbing a high school? I've search Ebay and Amazon, but for every 50-cent book there's a $4 delivery charge.

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Re: question not related to panels
[info]jonhansen
2005-06-08 04:36 pm UTC (link)
Rob a used bookstore?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: question not related to panels
[info]nihilistic_kid
2005-06-08 05:32 pm UTC (link)
Rob a grade school!


Hit every Goodwill and Salvation Army in town, or ask on craigslist.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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